2020 Cadillac CT5

"LJ909" (lj909) 01/22/2018 at 14:46 • Filed to: None

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! has spy shots of the rumored ATS/CTS replacement, the CT5. Set to come in under the CT6, the CT5 is another in between car that will do battle against the 3 and 5 Series, though I’m not sure why. There have also been rumors of a CT4 which would slot under this and do battle with the A3 and CLA. No word on power yet but I expect the typical turbo 4's and GM’s 3.6 V6. I’m not sure how I feel about this in between car yet. Cadillac seems to want to consolidate the ATS/CTS since both don’t really sell well at all. What do you guys think nof the coming CT5 and CT4?

PatBateman > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 14:54

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I like it. And I doubt that they’ll rely on the 3.6 when the 3.0TT has been developed nicely.

But that hood scoop, of functional, screams “something bigger than V6”.

PatBateman > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 14:56

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Also, is it me, or does that look a little like a...HATCHBACK? 

gmctavish needs more space > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 14:58

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I know it won’t happen, but I’m just gonna let myself dream of a Cadillac sedan with the 3.6 and a 6 speed.

LJ909 > PatBateman 01/22/2018 at 14:59

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Im sure the V is coming.

gettingoldercarguy > PatBateman 01/22/2018 at 14:59

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Like the Kia stinger? Yes and I like it!

LJ909 > PatBateman 01/22/2018 at 15:00

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Right? I noticed that too. I have a feeling though with how auto camo is they are just messing with us to throw us off.

LOREM IPSUM > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:04

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Hot take: GM should kill off Chevrolet cars.

Cadillac makes cars

Chevrolet makes Trucks and SUV’s

GMC makes luxury trucks and SUV’s (OR bulletproof work/commercial fleet type vehicles)

Cadillac Corvette is kinda catchy.

LJ909 > gmctavish needs more space 01/22/2018 at 15:04

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Im not sure why they never gave the ATS the manual considering its almost literally a 4 door Camaro.

WilliamsSW > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:06

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I like it! Will be interesting to see if it’s a hatch or not - I’m guessing no.

And that scoop is probably just there to tease us. :)

LJ909 > LOREM IPSUM 01/22/2018 at 15:10

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Chevy is too historic to kill off. I do think that their car line is too bloated. Too many models overlap with other GM brands. If anything GMC needs to go away. But GMC has always made a profit so its here to stay.

gmctavish needs more space > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:12

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If there was any way to get a manual with the V6 other than the ATS-V, I would’ve been looking for ways to afford a lightly used ATS.

LJ909 > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 15:12

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Yea the hatch look and that scoop are fucking with us. Unless they are developing the V alongside the regular model.

404 - User No Longer Available > PatBateman 01/22/2018 at 15:13

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Didn’t Johan make that speech about “industry going circles” and eventually crossovers becomes liftbacks again? Forgot where but he said something along those lines.

And not surprising considering Escala was a preview.

LJ909 > gmctavish needs more space 01/22/2018 at 15:16

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Same here. The 3.6 really is a stellar engine. And the ATS chassis is equally stellar. The Camaro is just too heavy for the platform.

punkgoose17 > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:16

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I am amused that they are moving back into the position of the 1st gen and 2nd CTS.

WilliamsSW > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:18

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The tires on that one don’t look like they’d be on a V.

I do think Cadillac needs to re-arrange their sedan sizes a bit - the ATS is too small, the CTS seems to be a tweener between the 3- and 5-series, and the CT6 seems to be as roomy as a LWB 7er.

The end result is that they don’t really have a car in the size that I want (5 series or perhaps slightly larger).

LJ909 > punkgoose17 01/22/2018 at 15:20

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They are only doing this because the existing models dont sell.

LJ909 > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 15:29

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All their cars I find to be not quite right: The CTS could take on both the 3 and 5 Series. The ATS is small, especially in the rear where it might as well be a coupe and is what the CTS should have been from the beginning; and the CT6 is roomy but not as roomy as the flagship Germans, and isnt even that much bigger than the CTS in interior dimensions. They dont know what they are doing.

LOREM IPSUM > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:29

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You’re not wrong, Chevy is too historic for them to kill off, but aside from the ‘Vette what would we be missing out on without them? They’re not really producing anything particularly remarkable, and with the fairly comprehensive Cadillac lineup it wouldn’t be too difficult to build a Caddy for every Chevy car driver.

30k Base CT2/3/4/etc, with a turbo 4, rwd/awd, hot body lines, cloth, manual transmission and windows, with the ability to be optioned to 50 grand with every goodie imaginable... Or a Malibu?

Sheeeeeeeit.

WilliamsSW > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:33

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The CTS needs to pick a lane- it can’t take on both the 3 and 5. It ends up being nearly the size of a 5 with the rear seat room of a 3, which is dumb.

Have you been in the back seat of a CT6? It’s not as big as a 760, but I found it to be very roomy - much more so than a CTS.

wafflesnfalafel > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:34

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super cool - I’d bet motors will be turbo 4 and 6, (or maybe start with the 3.6...) I’m kinda glad they are combining models - the sedan market is shrinking and hopefully we’ll end up with one, right sized and better product.

404 - User No Longer Available > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 15:41

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I actually see it differently than in the past. With the 3 and 5 growing in size, Cadillac might have their own niche of going back to the old BMW sizes. It used to be that Cadillac is chasing to be “5-series for 3-series money” idea, which made them look cheap (and their interior qualities back then didn’t help). But if they actually price the car in between 3 and 5 instead of down to the 3, it might work.

TL;DR: if this CT5 is E39 sized, and the CT4 is E46 sized with the driving dynamics to go with it, I’m all for it.

LJ909 > LOREM IPSUM 01/22/2018 at 15:43

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30k Base CT2/3/4/etc, with a turbo 4, rwd/awd, hot body lines, cloth, manual transmission and windows, with the ability to be optioned to 50 grand with every goodie imaginable... Or a Malibu?

This wouldnt work as a Cadillac. They have been trying to build the brand to take on the worlds best. Cloth seats and a manual dont portray that.

LJ909 > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 15:47

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Yea it rally cant, even though before the ATS came it had been doing just that and not succeeding at it. The first gen CTS rear seat was about as tight as the ATS’ is from what I remember.

I had a CT6 for a day this past summer and it was roomy in the back. But not as roomy as it should be for a flagship. Dimensions wise, its just .5 more inches of legroom than the CTS.

Party-vi > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:48

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With the door scallops and vent this looks more like a next-gen Charger.

404 - User No Longer Available > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:52

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Unless they want to try Europe again. BMW and Mercs both come in those trims in their home countries. Have you seen base 3-cylinder 1-series’ in Europe?

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 15:53

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The scoop might just be there so they can slip their V mules out for testing and not have them stick out. Fingers crossed anyway.

WilliamsSW > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 15:54

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Hmm, that’s weird- I was in the back of the CTS and CT6 on the same day last summer and felt like it had 6 inches more legroom. I didn’t *think* it was a short driver in front of me but maybe it was?

The CT6 may not be flagship worthy, but supposedly Cadillac has said that the intent was to introduce a car above that - although that was a few years ago, and given where sales are at, they may be reconsidering.

LJ909 > Party-vi 01/22/2018 at 15:57

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Which is way OVERDUE anyway.

LJ909 > 404 - User No Longer Available 01/22/2018 at 15:58

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I have. But Cadillac could never work in Europe though I think they are coming back this year or next. I dont see how though with the disaster that was the BLS.

WilliamsSW > 404 - User No Longer Available 01/22/2018 at 15:59

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It’s hard to tell where Cadillac’s price points are at these days - because there’s an enormous difference between MSRP and what they actually sell for. Lotta cash on the hood of them.

if this CT5 is E39 sized, and the CT4 is E46 sized with the driving dynamics to go with it, I’m all for it.

I like that thought, but if so, the CT5 has to be priced with the 3 series (which I’m pretty sure is at least the size of an E39 if not bigger), and the CT4 like a 2-series. The mass market still equates size with value, whether you and I agree or not.

Party-vi > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 16:02

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Dodge holds on to designs like Toyota holds onto engines and transmissions.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 16:03

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This looks decent but man it just seems like Cadillac doesn’t know how to get the sales they want in this segment. And if they introduce a CT5 and it’s in between a CTs and ats in size then a CT4 would either be too close in size or very small for the luxury world.

I know little about selling cars but I do sometimes wish I think an ATS with the little engine(2.5) and a stick would be a good DD.

LOREM IPSUM > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 16:04

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That’s why most of the ones on the lot will be optioned to 40k, with heated leather, power everything, and an autobox.

404 - User No Longer Available > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 16:12

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My friend’s E39 is the same size as my F30, but the E39 is actually a tad bit longer.

So instead of ATS sized, it should be Chinese ATS-L sized.

LJ909 > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 16:37

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Yea its roomy, but its got noting on the S/A8/7/G90. The CT6 can be more closely compared to, as far as rear seat leg room is concerned, to the other wanna be flagship, the Infiniti Q70L. The Q70L has 1.4 inches more of rear legroom.

Apparently they are still developing it. The product person I talked to a few months back stated that its still in development but we wont see it until late 20' and a name hasnt been decided on it yet. She also mentioned it being kept very secret.

LJ909 > Party-vi 01/22/2018 at 16:41

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They have been sticking with that American Muscle design formula since the inception of the first gen LX cars. With the redesigns that the Charger got in 11' and 15' its worked, but way overdue for something new.

LJ909 > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 01/22/2018 at 16:46

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They dont know what they are doing. Its evident by the fact that they are doing another gray area car with the intent to release something else below it. Like I mentioned to someone else, this is just model consolidation because the ATS and CTS don’t sell. It makes more sense and saves money to have one model that can take on 2 fronts. Like what Acura did when they combined the TL and TSX into the TLX.

Ive been mulling an ATS myself, either the 2.5 (skip the Malibu sourced 2.0. Its a disservice to the car and kinda appalling they even thought of it as an engine option) or the 3.6. Its just the tightness of the backseat makes me not want to do it. With the 3.6 in Performance trim, its pretty much a lighter 4 door Camaro RS

WilliamsSW > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 17:12

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I think that halo car is one of the things that Cadillac desperately needs - it can’t some soon enough.

LJ909 > WilliamsSW 01/22/2018 at 17:13

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The halo and the flagship, but for whatever reason GM has been dragging their feet on both while public perception of the brand continues to go down. Its wishful thinking but that mid engined Vette needs to have a Cadillac version.

xyzabc > Party-vi 01/22/2018 at 17:16

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Come on....those “scallops” are fake. Added camo.

You should loose your OPPO privileges for a week.

WilliamsSW > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 18:32

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They’ve always had a hard time grasping a platform that wasn’t profitable on a stand-alone basis.

And I’m sure that more than one GM suit has proposed axing Cadillac’s cars entirely and just milking the Escalade somehow.

Hopefully that car comes soon and is fantastic -

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 21:44

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I hope they keep the side scallops. Tastefully aggressive could really work in this segment. A luxury, roomy, four door sedan that drives like a Camaro is great but it has to look the part.

The ATS and CTS looked great in V form but they didn’t make a V sport styled normal car for those who didn’t want chrome everywhere.

HPoz - I like Honda Fits and I cannot lie > LJ909 01/22/2018 at 21:57

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I just hope it comes with a stick. I’m not a huge stickler (heh) for manuals (imo a good car is good regardless of what kind of gearbox it has) but it would be sad to see Caddy pull out of that market and leave the fairly soulless 3 and 4 series as the only way to get a manual luxury car.

Party-vi > xyzabc 01/23/2018 at 07:54

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That’s rude as balls, cuz.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > LJ909 01/23/2018 at 23:53

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Seriously. I’m hoping the new Charger looks anything like the 1999 design study, but we have to wait until 20-21 according to allpar for the next one.

404 - User No Longer Available > LJ909 03/19/2018 at 13:17

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either the 2.5 (skip the Malibu sourced 2.0. Its a disservice to the car and kinda appalling they even thought of it as an engine option) or the 3.6.

Are you confusing the 2.0 T with the 2.5 NA, which the latter is the Malibu engine?

LJ909 > 404 - User No Longer Available 03/21/2018 at 11:52

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No. The ATS is (or was) offered with a base 2.5 4 with 205 horses. The step up from that was the 2.0T.

404 - User No Longer Available > LJ909 03/21/2018 at 16:22

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Yeah except everywhere I heard the 2.5L was crap.